Masters 2010 tournment

In a recent email, Greg wrote,

Greg wrote:One last thing, at Origins, there was some discussion on what to do for next year’s tournament since, AAR will be gone and AA42 will be out at some point after GEN CON. And with AA50 being a possible solution, what would you like to see in the way of games being played for the Masters? Would we want to set the Masters to AA42 set as the new standard even though we might not know a thing about it before hand? Just some thoughts…

My preference is to stick with Revised, at least for now. Here's my reasoning:

- As Greg pointed out, AA42 is still an unknown quantity at this time. After the game comes out (late in 2009), people will have less than a year to buy a copy and play it enough to get good at it, before the 2010 tournament. It is not necessarily the case that everyone who qualifies for the 2010 Masters' tournament will do this.

- I sometimes frequent the TripleA website; where you can play Axis and Allies (and several variants) online. There is an AA50 map available, with most of the features of the game implemented. But over the past several months, I've probably seen about 50 - 70 games of Revised being played for every game of AA50 being played. On the other hand, you'll probably see about five or six games of Revised for every game of Classic you'll see on that site. This suggests that the energy of the A&A community is currently focused on Revised. Inasmuch as that energy might be shifting away from Revised, it seems to be getting siphoned off by online-only map variants such as Pact of Steel and New World Order.

- Given that AA50 will soon be (or already has been) discontinued, it doesn't seem logical to make it the default game for the Masters' tournament. I suppose people could still buy copies of it on eBay. But a tournament for a game that's no longer in print--and had been in print for less than a year before being discontinued--seems a bit . . . obscure.

That said, if AA42 manages to displace Revised as the most popular game on the TripleA site, and if it manages to stay in print for longer than did AA50, AA42 might well be a solid choice for the 2011 tournament. By then, people will have had the chance to familiarize themselves with the game; leading to a significantly higher level of play than would have been the case had the game been implemented too early.

I agree with Kurt's reasoning: keep Revised as the format for 2010 Masters. If the Masters, and qualifying for it via the Mega, is to be any draw for new players, it needs to be the format played most of the time by A&A fans. I agree, the Triple A web site should be a good read of what's preferred by the fans.

If WOTC complains that AA42 is not being played in the Masters, just explain that if they would kindly keep it in print for more than a year, then it just might be used in the 2011 Masters. As for using AA50, forget it; why use a defunct game?

Greg does not have a choice of Revised.

WOTC sponsors the tournament. Like with Classic, THEY will no longer support Revised.

So you have a choice: Anniversary or AA42. Thats it.

I guess a third "choice" is Revised with no prize support from WOTC. While admirable, this isnt something Greg would do.

AA42 is merely going to be Revised with AAAv rules. Its not going to be radically different. Not for the small price tag.

It will be easy to convert the masters to AA42. That's my vote.

squirecam wrote:Greg does not have a choice of Revised.

WOTC sponsors the tournament. Like with Classic, THEY will no longer support Revised.

So you have a choice: Anniversary or AA42. Thats it.

I guess a third "choice" is Revised with no prize support from WOTC. While admirable, this isnt something Greg would do.

AA42 is merely going to be Revised with AAAv rules. Its not going to be radically different. Not for the small price tag.

It will be easy to convert the masters to AA42. That's my vote.

Gotta wait till we see which is more popular or the better game AA50 or AA42. I can't vote till I play the AA42 game a few times- ask me in November.

But going with AA42 the next year can be tough if enough people haven't actually played that version.

That isn't normally a problem with players that go to Origins and GCI since they are all over the latest version, but the players in my tournament are a little slower to come up to speed on the latest version.

Then again, switching to a new version isn't as bad when there is enough lead time- like when they release a game in the fall- instead of back when they released Revised in March.

Craig

While I admit that we have not seen AA42, my assumption is that it will be Revised-like with some of the rules from AAAv. Probably not more than that.

Revised is being sunset by the company and therefore should be sunset for what is the 'prime' tournament for AA available. Revised has run its course and has been beaten to death by the AA community. Time to retire. Many tournament games of Revised are very similar in nature - that last battle for W. Europe, Germany or S. Europe - there is little new ground to be covered.

My preference would be AAAv - but I understand that there are issues with that - mainly that not everyone has a copy and so forth. I find AAAv to be light years ahead of Revised at this point in time. If AA42 is somewhere in between the two, that would be fine.

One other comment - some have said that it would be a problem or an issue that player's in the masters may not have enough time to play a new version of AA (AA42). Mule muffins! The Masters represents the best of the best in AA - and I am sure that these players would FIND the time to get good at the game. Let's face it - if we use AAAv, by GenCon 2010 it will have been out over 18 months. Even if we use AA42, still, it would have been out for 10 months. That is plenty of time for players dedicated to playing in the Masters to have time to 'figure out' the game. It isn't like it is going to be D-Day or Bulge or something where the game play is very much different. Now - if, for some reason, AA42 is radically different - then, yes, we would want to take a closer look.

MM

MatildaMike wrote:One other comment - some have said that it would be a problem or an issue that player's in the masters may not have enough time to play a new version of AA (AA42). Mule muffins!

Watch that language buddy...

MatildaMike wrote: Many tournament games of Revised are very similar in nature - that last battle for W. Europe, Germany or S. Europe - there is little new ground to be covered.

MM

That is only an issue in games played under Greg's scoring system.

Craig

Yoper wrote:

MatildaMike wrote: Many tournament games of Revised are very similar in nature - that last battle for W. Europe, Germany or S. Europe - there is little new ground to be covered.

MM

That is only an issue in games played under Greg's scoring system.

Craig

Yoper's rule #1 - never miss a chance to pimp your own ruleset.

rule #2 - see rule #1

squirecam wrote:

Yoper wrote:

MatildaMike wrote: Many tournament games of Revised are very similar in nature - that last battle for W. Europe, Germany or S. Europe - there is little new ground to be covered.

MM

That is only an issue in games played under Greg's scoring system.

Craig

Yoper's rule #1 - never miss a chance to pimp your own ruleset.

rule #2 - see rule #1

There was no pimping of other scoring systems, just reaffirming my opinion of the problem with the Smorey system.

I am just glad that others have finally come around to what I already knew. A couple of years ago.

Craig

squirecam wrote:Greg does not have a choice of Revised.

WOTC sponsors the tournament. Like with Classic, THEY will no longer support Revised.

So you have a choice: Anniversary or AA42. Thats it.

I guess a third "choice" is Revised with no prize support from WOTC. While admirable, this isnt something Greg would do.

AA42 is merely going to be Revised with AAAv rules. Its not going to be radically different. Not for the small price tag.

It will be easy to convert the masters to AA42. That's my vote.

Thanks for the support Squirecam, now, after all the discussion at GEN CON, the third option is to NOT have a Masters in 2010...a viable option and one that looks more and more like a possibilty...

Peace,

SwampHQ wrote:

Thanks for the support Squirecam, now, after all the discussion at GEN CON, the third option is to NOT have a Masters in 2010...a viable option and one that looks more and more like a possibilty...

Peace,

Given a choice between no Masters tournament and an AA42 Masters tournament, I'd pick the latter in a heartbeat.

- I'll grant that AA50 is almost certainly a better game than either Revised or AA42. But AA50 may not be an option for a Masters tournament because the game is no longer in print and because it takes longer to play.

- AA42 is basically the Revised map with the AA50 rules set. Anyone who can play a good game of Revised should be able to play a good game of AA42. Just about everyone who comes to these tournaments is familiar with Revised.

- WotC is probably going to prefer an AA42 Masters tournament over an AA50 Masters tournament.

Doing the Masters tournament in AA42 format brings up another problem. Assuming next year's GenCon has three general tournaments (AA42, AA50, and the soon-to-be-released Pacific), how do you decide which people get invited into the Masters? One option is to treat the AA42 tournament the way the Mega tournament has been treated in the past. The other option is to allocate one spot each in the Masters to the winners of each of the three major tournaments.

Doing things the first way would make sure that people couldn't get into an AA42-based tournament based on their play of a game other than AA42. On the other hand, someone who's good with one of these maps can, with a little practice, become good at another. And we're all pretty much familiar with the Revised map anyway. The winners of the AA50 and Pacific tournaments would almost certainly produce high quality play in a game of AA42.

If the goal is to have each of the three tournaments on an equal footing with the other two, each tournament winner should be invited to the Masters. But if the goal is to make the AA42 the main tournament, with the other two tournaments more of a sideshow, the three best teams from the AA42 tournament should be the ones to get invited.

My vote is for AA42. I'll begin playing it this weekend. It doesn't look much different from Revised and should be easy for experienced players to pick up. Most of us in the Masters are already familiar with the AA50 rules, so it's only a small change to go to AA42. It will be interesting to see how the naval rules change strategies and how the map change in Alaska affects strategy in the Pacific.

The only two things I have against AA50 is that it takes longer to play and that it's out of print and won't be back till later. For a tournament that will last several rounds, we need a game that can be played in a shorter time period than AA50.

My vote is for AA42. Those to be invited to the Masters should be those who would otherwise be invited to the Masters if Revised were still being played. Basically, those who can play Revised well will play AA42 well also.

I must say that I had a great time at GenCon this year. I played virtually nonstop from Wed. night until Sun. afternoon. Having Mike Wilson for a partner in the Mega was excellent and I hope he is not upset that we took 2nd.
AA50 was strange when Charles and I faced off in somewhat of a stupor halfway through our game. He should have taken me up on going out for lunch and coming back to finish the game later.
Thank you Greg for a well run tournament.

Carl

VanGal wrote:My vote is for AA42. Those to be invited to the Masters should be those who would otherwise be invited to the Masters if Revised were still being played. Basically, those who can play Revised well will play AA42 well also.

I must say that I had a great time at GenCon this year. I played virtually nonstop from Wed. night until Sun. afternoon. Having Mike Wilson for a partner in the Mega was excellent and I hope he is not upset that we took 2nd.
AA50 was strange when Charles and I faced off in somewhat of a stupor halfway through our game. He should have taken me up on going out for lunch and coming back to finish the game later.
Thank you Greg for a well run tournament.

Carl

Thanks Carl...