AA50 Tournament Rules for Origins/GCI

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AA50 Tournament Rules for Origins/GCI

Post by SwampHQ on Mon 01 Jun 2009, 10:03

Guys,

Listed are the tournament rules for the AA50 board game. I know that not everyone will be happy but I tried and believe that this will give everyone the best bang for the buck, and a good time to boot.

Let me know what you think... Question

This
is a qualifying round for a casual play event for a two-player team with a
maximum of 8 players for each qualifying round
. Little to no
experience is needed to play AA50, just some basic knowledge of Axis and Allies
terminology. Basic tournament rules will
be addressed before play begins. The
winners of each game will qualify for single elimination (SE) play on Saturday. Prizes will be awarded to the top teams in
this event.


• All games will have a time limit of 5 hours and 45
minutes. (see END TIME rules for how to
end games within time frame allotted.)


• Game play is based on the AA50 Rulebook with the errata
(see below) for clarifications.


No National Objectives/Bonus Income will be
used.


• Technology will used as described in the official
Rulebook with the revision, as noted below, for Heavy Bombers.


• The 1942 scenario will be used at set up.

• The bidding system used will be an OPEN bid for sides
(see below). This is critical as applied
to Victory Conditions.



Victory
Conditions:


1. The side with the most Victory Cities (VC) at the end of regulation play wins (must be held at the end of the US turn).

2. If there is a tie with regards to how many VC’s both sides own; then IPC”S will be counted to determine a winner. The game begins with the Allies having (93) and the Axis (78). If at the end of regulation play both sides have 9 victory cities, the Axis must take a total of 8 IPC’s, over and above their starting total to win. This would give the Axis a final total of 86 to 85 IPC’s for the tie-breaker victory;


3. There will be NO IPC Bonuses (as in Revised) used to determine the final Victory Conditions for games.

Bidding:
The actual bid will be for a number of IPC’s that the one side will grant, from
the bank, to the other before the start of the game. This number of IPC’s may
be used to buy game pieces only! You may not save the money or use it for the
purchase of Industrial Technology and/or Complexes. Once the bid number has
been determined, the side receiving the bid will make their purchase and place
all bid pieces on the game board in territories/sea zones in which they occupy
at the start of the game. You may NOT mix the bid units purchased for one
country with units of an allied country.
Also, units may not be placed in Neutral Countries.


To
determine who starts the bidding, both sides will roll a dice. The winner, the
higher number, chooses whether to start the bidding or defer. Whoever starts
the bid, must announce what side they wish to play (Axis or Allies) and issue a
positive bid (minimum 1 IPC). If your opponent
takes the bid at 1 IPC then obviously, they wanted to play the other side and
the 1 IPC is lost. If they choose to increase the bid, then the bidding will
continue until one side accepts the bid IPC value and buys units accordingly.


(Example of BiddingSmile Team A vs. Team
B: Team A wins the coin toss and elects to defer their bid. Team B starts the
bidding and announces that they would like to be the Allies, hence, giving
money to the Axis. They start the bid at "5" IPC’s; next, Team A bids
"7"; Team B bids "8"; Team A stops the bidding at
"8" and takes the Axis. Team A now has 8 imaginary IPC’s to purchase
units and place them on the game board in countries, which are currently
occupied, by allied, LIKE units before play. In the above scenario, that would
be the Axis. After placement of these units, the game then starts as usual.
Remember no Industrial Tech. rolls, and any bid money left over is gone...


Official Errata/Rule Clarification:

Germany's starting IPC’s should be 37.

Breakthrough Chart 1 – Rockets: The following sentence
should be added: “In each turn, only one AA gun per territory may launch
rockets, and each industrial complex
can be attacked by only one rocket launcher.”


If China controls an odd number of territories at the beginning of its turn;
the number of infantry it receives rounded is rounded down. If China controls
only one territory, it gets no new infantry.


New Chinese units may not be placed in a territory that already contains three
or more units. Allied units do not
count, so only territories that already contain three or more Chinese units
(including the Flying Tigers fighter) may not have new units placed in them.


The Chinese fighter (the Flying Tigers) canNOT attack units in territories or sea
zones outside China if it returns to Chin in the same turn. It canNOT leave
China, even temporarily.


Air units can only hit subs if there is a friendly destroyer on the battle board,
otherwise hits made by air units must be applied to units other than
submarines.


Units
in the same sea zone belonging to a power allied to the attacker never
participate in a battle in any way. Only a destroyer belonging to the attacking
power will cancel
the Submersible and Surprise Strike abilities of defending submarines and allow
attacking air units to hit them. Since all defending units in the sea zone
participate in the
battle, any defending destroyer will cancel these abilities of attacking subs and
allow defending fighters to hit them, even if the destroyer and fighter belong
to different
powers.


Tech; Heavy Bombers. These units with roll two dice and taking the better of the two. This will replace what is currently in the handbook.

Transports do NOT roll combat dice. As a result, they will never hit anything. They must rely on combat units for protection. Transports may only be taken as casualties when there is no other choice. In other words, they can't be used as "cannon
fodder". Combat units protect transports, not the other way around.



• Transports that retreat from a sea battle with other ships may NOT unload during the non-combat phase of a turn.

END TIME RULE: (See End Time Rule Handout)
this is how game will end within the time constraints of the event.


Dice Rolling:
The game comes with a
base set of dice. Using your own dice for play is permitted. You must let your opponent use any dice you
bring to the table. As a good rule of
thumb to help play move along, “Units with the same attack value are ALL
rolled for at the same time.” Any
questions, please ask the Judges.

Game Note: Have
fun! That is what we are here for. Even though this is considered a “tournament”
per se, it is intended to be an event for all level of players so, take your
time, ask questions, enjoy the game and have fun while doing so…Happy Gaming!




Peace,

_________________

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Axis & Allies EO/GM - ORIGINS/GENCON/SPRING GATHERING
http://www.headlesshorseman2.com/
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Re: AA50 Tournament Rules for Origins/GCI

Post by questioneer on Mon 01 Jun 2009, 15:29

You're right, I'm pretty disappointed. Crying or Very sad

Not quite sure why you would include Tech and not include NOs??? confused

I do agree with the Heavy Bomber rule- but Interceptors is needed.

No 1941/1942 choice Mad

The IPC count for tie breakers seems to favor Axis.

I have to save some of my judgment because I have not once played the game without NOs. I'll have to try it online- but I can tell you that the concensus is that people think playing w/o NOs and/or Tech is lame.

Won't be at Origins and GenCon this year again anyway- Car transmission went out- there goes my extra cash. Sad Anyway its best for me to wait and see how the play with AA50 and later the new AA42 shakes out.
AA42 may turn out to be a better game- or not.

Have fun though and we'll be waiting for the results!!!

Ben says "hi". Smile

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Re: AA50 Tournament Rules for Origins/GCI

Post by SwampHQ on Tue 02 Jun 2009, 10:49

Questioneer,

Bummer you will NOT be able to make either event but in short:

Sorry about your disappointment. As for why:

Not quite sure why you would include Tech and not include NOs??? confused

NO/BI
is what it is, an option and not part of the official game rules. It
also bogs/slows down the game to an extent, especially with new
players. With the newness of the game, it is much cleaner and the game
goes quicker and more streamline without them. And for newer players,
this will be an advantage. No one will be trying to figure out what
they need to capture to get that bonus money instead of focusing play
on the overall objective.

As for Tech's, they are part of the game and should be included. Just adjustments made to anything that might really throw things off...Personally, I have never like Tech's but have come to understand, they are part of the game and even though are used in most cases for luck...sometimes that is what one needs to pull out a victory...?

I do agree with the Heavy Bomber rule- but Interceptors is needed.
Heavy Bombers, yes, but that is not
part of the rules in AA50. Maybe for another game and another time. One
of the things yinz need to remember what i am dealing with here. I am
NOT going to change the rules by adding and subtracting things I think
or believe might be better just to appease the masses. We have a game
and I am just trying to make the best with what is available for play
at these CON's...

No 1941/1942 choice Mad
NOPE! I can't have a tournament or organized play having games start at different years/times. That would cause nothing but chaos...and 1942 is the best scenario for set up and timeframe purposes for our use...


The IPC count for tie breakers seems to favor Axis.
If you believe the tie-breaker is in favor of
the Axis, then the bid should take care of that for those purposes. It
all depends on how you play and what one needs to complete the victory
conditions.

Funny how you did not mention China...That is to follow...

Thanks for your comments. They are well appreciated.

Peace Idea

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Axis & Allies EO/GM - ORIGINS/GENCON/SPRING GATHERING
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A good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow. - General George S. Patton
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Re: AA50 Tournament Rules for Origins/GCI

Post by questioneer on Tue 02 Jun 2009, 11:47

SwampHQ wrote:Questioneer,

As for Tech's, they are part of the game and should be included. Just adjustments made to anything that might really throw things off...Personally, I have never like Tech's but have come to understand, they are part of the game and even though are used in most cases for luck...sometimes that is what one needs to pull out a victory...?

Heavy Bombers, yes, but that is not
part of the rules in AA50. Maybe for another game and another time. One
of the things yinz need to remember what i am dealing with here. I am
NOT going to change the rules by adding and subtracting things I think
or believe might be better just to appease the masses. We have a game
and I am just trying to make the best with what is available for play
at these CON's...

NOPE! I can't have a tournament or organized play having games start at different years/times. That would cause nothing but chaos...and 1942 is the best scenario for set up and timeframe purposes for our use...

If you believe the tie-breaker is in favor of
the Axis, then the bid should take care of that for those purposes. It
all depends on how you play and what one needs to complete the victory
conditions.

Funny how you did not mention China...That is to follow...


1. Tech is NOT a part of the game, they are OPTIONAL just like NOs. I understand why you don't include NO's (though I don't like it) but I don't understand why Tech would be included either if it is also optional. confused

2. Your heavy bomber rule is taken from LTHR from Revised. The interceptor rule is an official optional rule via the new FAQs. So aren't you "adding" to the rules??? confused

3. 41/42 choice can be done like the Europe/Pacific games where you alternate setups every round. It CAN be done, but I understand why you don't to make things easier. Idea

4. You're right here- the bid will take care of this and these issues can be adjusted over time. Wink

5. I have no issues with the China rules now that the FAQ's are out. I do wonder if it would be better or worse if the Chinese units could leave China proper. Maybe that is something that can be talked over with Larry. scratch

6. Sorry I can't make it again. I've been intended to go back to GenCon and maybe Origins (I get a free ticket there- teacher pass) but its tough with family and the economy and such. I'll try again next year.

Thanks for being understanding, I don't mean to be difficult- I just like to know "why?" to my questions.
Very Happy
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Clarifications

Post by SwampHQ on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 08:46

Questioneer,

First and foremost, please, you are never bothersome. I am glad for your participation and it is for people like yourself that help us see the things we might otherwise miss just as I will explain...

1. Tech is NOT a part of the game, they are OPTIONAL just like NOs. I
understand why you don't include NO's (though I don't like it) but I
don't understand why Tech would be included either if it is also
optional. confused
Sorry about that, yes, your are correct in that it is officially an optional rule. But it is a rule that has been in place since the first game and people are very familiar with how it works. It is not something that would need to be explained...

2. Your heavy bomber rule is taken from LTHR from Revised. The
interceptor rule is an official optional rule via the new FAQs. So
aren't you "adding" to the rules??? confused
You are right again and that is why people like yourself and your comments are well appreciated. Sometime we just can't catch everything. I believe we might just go ahead and add this one...it makes sense and helps the Axis tremenously...

3. 41/42 choice can be done like the Europe/Pacific games where you
alternate setups every round. It CAN be done, but I understand why you
don't to make things easier. Idea

Yes, again you are correct, anything can be done. But in this case, I just don't like the toggle effect and would much prefer a set standard in tourney play...

Again, thanks for the comments, they are well appreciated...

Peace,

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Re: AA50 Tournament Rules for Origins/GCI

Post by squirecam on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 15:49

I see greg has answered alot of this, but I thought I'd participate.

Having the game start in 1941 is going to create alot more problems than it solves. The reason why LHTR worked so well for Gencon was that the version everyone played was the same. And LHTR only came about after we played an 8VC game, and saw what that was like.

If people are playing 6 different versions 41/42 obj/no obj tech/no tech then it is really difficult to see if there are issues with the score/system.

Second, 1941 starts with the Allies having 6 VC. They need 10. You spend a round or two just getting to "1942" conditions. In a game ALREADY limited to 5-6 rounds, thats an unacceptable use of time.

1942 happens to be better balanced than 1941. Also, given revised/classic, it will be easire to adjust if issues arise.

As to why people are not using NO's it again comes down to balance.

We have to make sure the BASIC game is balanced. Adding NO's would seem to swith the balance in the axis favor (gamewise in more income) but NOT VC wise (as NO do not figure into win conditions) So now a new bid layer is established.

Using NO also forces some people to SLOW down, and make sure which NO is applicable. In a game already time limited, taking additional time to see if you have NO only makes it less likely you can complete 5-6 rounds.

I know I dont want a 4 round game. I'd rather have a 6 round no obj game than a 4 round Obj game.

The Escort rule does fix the basic overpowered bomber problem. There I agree with you.

Tech - I dont like tech. But its been in every base game (and every Gencon tournament game) so leaving it out is probably not an option.

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Re: AA50 Tournament Rules for Origins/GCI

Post by questioneer on Wed 03 Jun 2009, 18:06

squirecam wrote:I see greg has answered alot of this, but I thought I'd participate.

As to why people are not using NO's it again comes down to balance.

We have to make sure the BASIC game is balanced. Adding NO's would seem to swith the balance in the axis favor (gamewise in more income) but NOT VC wise (as NO do not figure into win conditions) So now a new bid layer is established.

Using NO also forces some people to SLOW down, and make sure which NO is applicable. In a game already time limited, taking additional time to see if you have NO only makes it less likely you can complete 5-6 rounds.

I know I dont want a 4 round game. I'd rather have a 6 round no obj game than a 4 round Obj game.

The Escort rule does fix the basic overpowered bomber problem. There I agree with you.

Tech - I dont like tech. But its been in every base game (and every Gencon tournament game) so leaving it out is probably not an option.

Very good explanation, thanks for the clarity. On these grounds you guys are right- but I don't remember tech being played in the Revised tourny- then again its been a couple of years since I've been to GenCon- have things changed???

Maybe next year you can add the NOs with the tech. I've been playing with the NOs for a while now online and FTF and you do memorize them. The "speed" issue can be solved only by practice using them. I really think that NO's and Tech are really what set this game apart from the others- makes sense to balance the "base" game first though.

Very Happy
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AA Update

Post by SwampHQ on Thu 04 Jun 2009, 09:23

Guys,

Thanks a lot of the comments...

Very good explanation, thanks for the clarity. On these grounds you
guys are right- but I don't remember tech being played in the Revised
tourny- then again its been a couple of years since I've been to
GenCon- have things changed???

I don't ever recall in all my years of running the AA tourneys (2nd Ed., Revised) that Tech was not part of the game. It might not have been used much but was always an option for players during a game.

Again, thanks for the comments and we will see how things work from here...

Peace, Arrow

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Glitch in Heavy Bombers

Post by questioneer on Tue 09 Jun 2009, 10:52

I think I found a little glitch in the HBombers rule for the Origins/GCI tourny (roll 2 dice and pick the higher of the two), might want to note.

It is important that if you have 2 or more bombers with HB (using the above rule), then you have to roll EACH bomber separately otherwise it messes up the probability.

Example: if I have 3 bmrs with HB and lets say I roll all 6 dice at the same time and I get: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 One could pick the top three die rolls: 4, 5, 6 = 15 damage.

Versus rolling each bomber separately- example bmr1 gets: 1, 2 bmr2 gets: 3, 4 bmr3 gets 5, 6. Now taking the highest of these rolls separately yields: 2+4+6= 12 damage!

So which is correct???

Questioneer strikes again!

confused confused confused
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Q Strikes Again

Post by SwampHQ on Tue 09 Jun 2009, 10:56

I think I found a little glitch in the HBombers rule for the
Origins/GCI tourny (roll 2 dice and pick the higher of the two), might
want to note.

It is important that if you have 2 or more
bombers with HB (using the above rule), then you have to roll EACH
bomber separately otherwise it messes up the probability.

Example:
if I have 3 bmrs with HB and lets say I roll all 6 dice at the same
time and I get: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 One could pick the top three die
rolls: 4, 5, 6 = 15 damage.

Versus rolling each bomber
separately- example bmr1 gets: 1, 2 bmr2 gets: 3, 4 bmr3 gets 5, 6. Now
taking the highest of these rolls separately yields: 2+4+6= 12 damage!

You are correct. You must roll them seperately...

Thanks.

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Re: AA50 Tournament Rules for Origins/GCI

Post by questioneer on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 14:49

Is it true that Tech is OUT (as well as Nat. Obj.) for tournament setting at GenCon this year???

Trying to get some games in using your tourny rules, which I know will be tweeked this year from time to time.
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Re: AA50 Tournament Rules for Origins/GCI

Post by squirecam on Wed 08 Jul 2009, 18:50

questioneer wrote:Is it true that Tech is OUT (as well as Nat. Obj.) for tournament setting at GenCon this year???

Trying to get some games in using your tourny rules, which I know will be tweeked this year from time to time.

Tech was used at Origins.

After watching those results, Greg decided for no tech at Gencon.

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Tech's

Post by SwampHQ on Thu 09 Jul 2009, 08:22

questioneer wrote:Is it true that Tech is OUT (as well as Nat. Obj.) for tournament setting at GenCon this year???

Trying to get some games in using your tourney rules, which I know will be tweaked this year from time to time.

Questioneer,

Yes, until we can come up with a better solution on a viable use of tech's in the AA50 game, we will NOT be using tech's as we did at Origins and for good reason. Just ask Eric...

I just have not gotten around to making the official annoucement but need to very soon! affraid

Peace,

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Re: AA50 Tournament Rules for Origins/GCI

Post by CraigBee on Wed 22 Jul 2009, 22:17

What happened to Eric that caused technology to be removed from the tournament?

Several of us will be traveling from Kansas City to play the AA50 tournament at GenCon. Do we need to register or do anything in advance to play?

Craig

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Registration

Post by SwampHQ on Thu 23 Jul 2009, 09:35

CraigBee,

It wasn't just Eric's game and tech rolls that will change tech's at GEN CON. Several other games, basically, had a monumental outcome on the games as a result of obtaining tech's...at this stage in the game, they are too much a game changer to consider for tourney play at this time...

The point being, and we have all been here before, we have a well laid plan of attack, it is going extremely well and the writing is on the wall. We have outplayed our opponents and victory is all but in our grasps. The enemy see the defeat at hand so, what the heck, lets roll for tech's, not once, but twice maybe three times...

And they get at least two. Jet fighters and Long Range aircraft... So, critical, it changes the outcome purely on a luck chance because one is losing...

Hence the reason we will be going without tech's at GEN CON...

Now, on to Registration. I am not sure but I believe pre-registration is now closed for GEN CON. You will have to purchase tickets into the event at GC and/or just buy generics when you arrive...

Thanks for asking and see you at GEN CON...

Peace, cheers

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Issues with Tech...

Post by MatildaMike on Fri 24 Jul 2009, 12:11

Greg was right - it wasn't just the champinoship game that had tech be a part of the outcome. It could be argued how big a part of that game, but, that isn't the point.

There are three big problems with tech the way it is set up (at least for tourney play):

1. Tech takes affect immediately. This is a BIG problem. It allows for the possibility of things that were IMPOSSIBLE to now be possible. Picture a situation where there is a single German next to Moscow which has 4 men in it. Germany has some planes, but not any in range - so it would be one inf vs 4 inf. Not good odds. Germany rolls for tech and hits long range aircraft. Suddenly, its one inf and 4 FTR vs 4 inf. Uh-oh. I can come up with many other examples, similar to this where the right tech and the right time makes something that could NEVER happen all of the sudden happen.

At least when the tech was at the END of the turn this sort of thing would not happen.

2. Problem #2 is that it is easier to get tech now. While I actually do like the new way of rolling for tech, in the end, if you spend $5 on turn one, it is very likely you will get a tech at some point - even in a game that goes only 5-7 rounds. To me, this makes tech almost too inexpesnive, but by itself is not the end of the world.

3. Lastly, I think some of the techs are overpowered for some countries. Improved Shipyards for US? - yikes. Mech inf for Germany? Goodbye Russia. Rockets for Russia, UK or Germany? So long to the other sides income (picture Germany with rockets firing 2-3 rockets a turn into UK - EVERY turn). As with problem #2, I do not think this is the end of the world either - by itself - or even in tandum with #2. At least you can do something about it if your opponent gets one of these - you have the ability to adjust what you are doing to deal with it.

In summary - I think problems 2 and 3 are not killers by themselves. Problem 1 is the key issue. I think techs would be OK to use if we change the rule back to how it works in Revised - tech takes affect at the END of your turn.

MM
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Re: AA50 Tournament Rules for Origins/GCI

Post by CraigBee on Wed 05 Aug 2009, 19:41

How many Generic GenCon Tickets do we need for a two player team to join the AA50 tournament?

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Generics

Post by SwampHQ on Thu 06 Aug 2009, 14:21

CraigBee,

I am not sure, it depends on how much the event cost. Most generics tickets have been $2 in the past. Are they the same. If so, then depending on how much the event cost is how many generics it takes to play and then for both of you...

Hope this helps...

Peace,

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Re: AA50 Tournament Rules for Origins/GCI

Post by Guest on Thu 22 Jul 2010, 09:32

Very good explanation, thanks for the clarity. On these grounds you
guys are right- but I don't remember tech being played in the Revised
tourny- then again its been a couple of years since I've been to
GenCon- have things changed???

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